Can i ask an Iraqi child who saw their sibling blown up by a drone how good of a President Obama was…
If you judge on a curve sure but most of our Presidents should be tried in the hague.
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You drone strike a couple US citizens and next thing you know people will think you’re a bad president who DGAF about due process.
You bail out banks while bulldozing the people protesting the looting of the government treasury, and people will rightfully assume you DGAF about them and are a bad president.
True centrists know better. Bailing out banks and killing citizens without due process is a bar too high to hold any president accountable to.
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I’m going to have to let you know, there are actually some hard rules against saying something like that on this forum, enforced by the Centrist Crew.
Criticizing Biden is off limits, as you’re helping Trump. Criticizing Obama is a grey area, but please do not tie Joseph Biden at all to the administration in which he served as Vice President. According to some on this forum, this is helping Trump and is off limits.
Any discussion about how a poor person without insurance does similarly under both and might not care about Trump vs Biden is off limits.
Please keep protesting the horrors of the Obama administration to the barest of minimums until Joseph Biden is elected. When that happens, feel free to do whatever you want but do not expect any support from the Forum Centrists - their goal is to go back to their money and brunch.
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Thanks for proving my point.
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Those evil mythical centrists. If only they actually existed here you would have a really solid argument.
and here I thought I was the only person remotely close to being thought of as an evil centrist on this board
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Evil Centrist: any person perceived as right of you on any topic.
Join the club. We eat babies for fun.
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Obama was better, but people turning the other way because it was Obama’s FBI persecuting OWS protesters or going to the ends of the Earth to try to get Snowden, or bombing people, or trying to force James Risen to reveal sources, or charging Chelea Manning with violating the Espionage Act is all a real thing because loyalists just want to look the other way. It’ll happen again.
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This doesn’t really have much to do with being a “centrist” however you define it. It’s more about being a partisan/loyalist. And despite the way Trumpkins are characterized around here, the overwhelming support of Trump is just from Republicans - people who are loyalists and think that everything Democrats do is necessarily worse - every single thing - and won’t allow themselves or any of their fellow partisans to entertain anything that is even remotely challenging.
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I don’t believe it, but holy crap:
https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1286360902548299776
EDIT: When I say “I don’t believe it”, I’m not accusing Quinnipiac of lying or incompetence. I just don’t think this will translate into a double digit defeat at the voting booths even without the massive voter suppression that’s going to take place.
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Jesus that is nuts.
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Centrists will talk out of one side of their mouth saying this election is about voting for the lesser of two evils, but isolate the Dems and call them evil and its the other side telling you they aren’t. Hypocrite morons.
Maybe Floridians don’t like dying after all.
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I think it’s not helpful to see all of this as good vs evil. The people who identify as centrists imagine that they are pragmatists, but that’s absolutely wrong. The biggest problems in the world, the biggest atrocities are mostly carried out mostly by people who are neither especially evil or good. People just go along. Systems determine outcomes to a large degree. It’s essentially impossible for a good person to become POTUS and not be part of a lot of terrible stuff. (see Izzy Stone’s comments about government and particularly Robert McNamara in the video I posted)
There’s definitely a good point to be made that everything you do in politics should be subverting or getting around both the Republicans and the Democrats.
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None of what you describe is off limits. Posts criticizing Biden or Obama don’t get flagged and hidden. You’ll get people who disagree with you, but I don’t think anyone wants to ban you. A few crybabies may want you to shut up, but I think they want that to be voluntary rather than something enforced upon you.
The bigger problem with being anti-Obama is that Democratic voters love Obama. Probably 80-90% of Democratic voters think that Obama was a good president. Leftists will never beat centrists if they cast issues as a referendum on Obama. Tying a political position to opposition to Obama is counter-productive among Democratic voters. Keeping protests of the horrors of the Obama administration to the barest of minimums is more effective if your goal is to sway people’s opinions, unless your primary goal is to sway people’s opinions about Obama.
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I’ll try to channel the late great Michael Brooks more (kind to people, ruthless to systems)
I’m sure there are plenty of people who think they are doing the right thing. I think we can call some things evil - putting people in ICE detention, for instance.
I’m very comfortable calling out everyone who enabled the Iraq War as evil. Biden is still distorting the facts and minimizing his involvement - that is evil. If he just wants to fuck off and go away forever, I’ll leave him alone but he is running for President.
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Turns out telling old retired voters to sacrifice their lives for the economy might not have been such a good idea. Who knew?
Yes, I am aware that site ownership isn’t censoring, and I’m not too concerned about my status on the forum. I’m referring to Clovis, Trolly, Alex, Mimosa, and some others who pile on to discussions to completely eliminate any criticism of the Democratic party, and muddy the waters around things like corporate money in politics .
My goal is to raise awareness about US crimes like ICE detention, the War in Iraq and Afghanistan. If I was knocking doors talking to people about voting for someone, I would do something different.
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But the side effect of large poll gaps is it may cause those who want to tamper with the vote to back off as it skews their risk versus reward a great deal.
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