Paler seems like a Ghislane-style figure in this situation. Pretty fucked up all around, esp since Gaiman was so convincing at portraying himself as an ally to women.
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Yeah⌠Iâm still working through the story, but Palmer is not coming off great either⌠Arranging for someone to babysit but then scheduling a playdate so the kid isnât there when the sitter arrives, and apparently was not there for many hours (given that there was time for Gaiman to give a tour of the grounds, give the sitter some wine, and talk her into the bath). And then Gaimanâs comment about talking with Amanda about getting with the sitter? Definitely seems like Palmer was, at least, trying to facilitate a sexual encounter (even giving her the benefit of the doubt that she did not think Neil would engage in non-consensual activity).
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$60k for kissing a celebrity. $300k for banging a celebrity. i hope the decades of intense psychoanalysis that neil gaiman is paying for will help these women get over their experience. it kinda seems like heâs the one being used tbh sorry
I do buy that Gaiman perceived consent from his victims. But I also believe them when they say he didnât have consent.
Discussion of Gaimanâs response
https://www.reddit.com/r/neilgaiman/comments/1i1ar8e/neil_gaimans_response_via_blog/
What I took away from the Gaiman news is that a man can know better, say all the right things and still tell himself itâs different when he does it.
Shameful. âShamefulâ is becoming the mantra of Neil Gaimanâs moral downfall, and it risks stripping the word of meaning, but thereâs no better word for this than âshameful.â
Itâs notable here what Gaiman does and doesnât address. He addresses the comments and the credibility of the victim he sees as most vulnerable, the one who he think is least likely to be believed. He addresses their communications in vague off-hand remarks. He takes the blame for indiscretion to project generosity and equanimity, and to avoid coming across as a flat deny-deny-deny.
Note that he makes no mention of his telephone conversation with Ms. Kendall, which anyone can hear. Does that also come across as communication with a happily consenting woman? If so, then we can easily assess Gaimanâs abysmal judgment of what consent looks like. If not, then we can see the disingenuousness of his rhetoric.
Take your pick; itâs all just different flavors of scumbaggery. Thereâs another word that Gaiman threatens to make his own; scumbag.
Is it possible that Gaiman was a scumbag with one woman and not the other? Itâs possible, but in order to believe that in this case, you would need to believe that Scarlet reported scumbag behavior that is remarkably consistent with the scumbag behavior that Ms. Kendall experienced, and came forward with it before Ms. Kendallâs story went public. How likely is it that a woman who was lying about being sexually assaulted would present a story of said assault that is consistent with another womanâs assault that sheâd have no way of knowing about beforehand?
Iâve spent many years as an essay-writing tutor. I have long years of experience reading persuasive writing and finding where arguments are strongest and where theyâre weakest, and when someone knows their position is weak, they tend to prevaricate in predictable ways. They tend to acknowledge weakness in their argument that is not real weakness, while ignoring weakness that is genuine. They present the worst sides of the opposing argument and selectively ignore where their opposition is strongest.
What Iâm getting at is that famed writer Neil Gaiman knows that heâs being dishonest here, and heâs not even doing a very good job writing his own dishonesty.
Neil Gaiman, you are a shameful scumbag, and every deflection and denial you throw at this is feeble. Even your lies are weak, transparent, and impotent.
These arenât isolated incidents where he just gives in to desire and the person just happens to be 20+ years younger. Heâs a sadist with a fetish for taboo and clearly doesnât care about mindfucking young women to get off.
I guess youâre also just writing off multiple claims of sex acts in the presence of his own child.
When a 22 year old tells you they donât want to have sex, that they arenât into men, that they were sexually abused by a 45 year old when they were 15, unless youâre a massive piece of shit you listen and react accordingly.
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Maybe the lines should be set so that things that are technically okay are still taboo so that people can do some taboo things without venturing into sexual assault. If we draw the lines so that the only taboo behavior is non-consensual sex, then it becomes difficult for a taboo fetishist to do anything that appeals to their taboo without breaking the law.
At the risk of offending my friends (you, other readers), the ânannyâ is a runaway who lived in a sleeping bag on the beach until she found herself in the palatial mansion of a global celebrity. She traded sexual favors for room and board, as homeless drifters often do. After she wore our her welcome there, she linked up with an ultralib neofeminist cult that convinced her that neil gaiman owed her money. Even she said she never considered any of it rape until the person with a phd in rape got their hooks into her.
I think if you have a hammer, a lot of things are gonna look like nails. And if you have a phd in rape, you might have a predisposition to think weird heterosexual sex is rape. I apologize again for my frankness, I enjoy neil gaimanâs books and this woman is a random homeless drifter.
Itâs a little like Kobe though, is NG so unlucky that the only vulnerable women he took advantage of hooked up with a rape PHD?
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Itâs still not okay to rape homeless people, just FYI.
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iâm putting myself in the nannyâs position. iâm homeless, iâm destitute, iâve exhausted all my funds and contacts. a group of liberal intellectuals start talking to me all sweet and giving me warm soup. they want to save me, they want to right the worldâs wrongs. do i tell them what they want to hear? do i exaggerate my story to tug on their particular heartstrings? itâs what every homeless person around the world does every day. iâm not gonna start calling neil gaiman a scumbag because a person in that position told some people a story they wanted to hear.
Okay. How about the thirteen other women?
Are people in your world allowed to recognize an act as rape or sexual assault after the fact?
What does it mean to have a PhD in rape?
âdoctor of psychology who had lectured at the University of Auckland on coercion, consent, and rapeâ
i read the same article you did. 13 women idk, it was this nannyâs story, one woman that he kissed and paid 60 grand and another woman who he had sex with that he paid 300k, and the woman is like, âyeah idk he asked how much to make it right and i said 300k completely randomlyâ. it sounds like he made it right, i mean who gets 300k for sex? nobody. i was expecting more dirt from the article considering the online reaction.
I donât have a PHD in rape or anything, but this sounds pretty rape-y to meâŚ
âIn 2007, Gaiman and Stout took a trip to the Cornish countryside. On their last night there, Stout developed a UTI that had gotten so bad she couldnât sit down. She told Gaiman they could fool around but that any penetration would be too painful to bear. âIt was a big hard âno,ââ she says. âI told him, âYou cannot put anything in my vagina or I will die.ââ Gaiman flipped her over on the bed, she says, and attempted to penetrate her with his fingers. She told him âno.â He stopped for a moment and then he penetrated her with his penis. At that point, she tells me, âI just shut down.â She lay on the bed until he was finished. (This past October, she filed a police report alleging he raped her.)â
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So someone whose expertise is in psychology and specializes in coercion, consent, and rape? This sounds like the perfect person to help people recognize when they have been violated.
I ask again. Are people in your world allowed to recognize an act as rape or sexual assault after the fact?
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Obviously itâs situation dependent. For example, if youâre roofied or blacked out drunk, then realizing after the fact is the only way. There are certainly things short of that which should qualify as well.
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BJ, youâre one of my favorite posters here, if not my favorite so please take this as intended. Itâs totally acceptable to not just rush to join the proverbial lynch mob when someone is accused of rape and to be skeptical and inquisitive but I think some of your language and posting on this topic is coming off as pretty insensitive. Iâm giving you the benefit of the doubt that youâre a good dude just being defensive about an artist whoâs work you enjoy.
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