You’re not here in good faith bro. Read what I said in my first post about how I would handle that.
You can’t run my vote off. I’m talking about others who don’t live in the circles you do.
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Technically, the only way to fuck Pete is to ratfuck him.
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Don’t worry, it’s not likely I’ll be here long…
This place is frothing about ALL THE WRONG THINGS.
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My vote doesn’t matter.
You said you were a volunteer for Bernie. I’m quite sure you’ve interacted with quite a few people.
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I don’t know what you’re talking about with impeachment. I’m talking about the Constitution. It was just shredded. The president is now a King, and no one can investigate him, because he can block everything. He said in public he will be cheating in the election. That’s a pretty effing big deal.
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What path do you propose if it looks likes Democrats will win the White House but not the Senate in 2020? If you are okay with burning it down then, why wait until November to light the match?
My basic belief is that the Constitution is inherently flawed and not fixable by a few amendments. Regime change is usually messy and we shouldn’t be afraid of the mess. That doesn’t mean civil war, but it may mean economic and military failures bigger than anything in our lifetimes.
Arguably, the Constitution was shredded during the Reagan years with Iran-Contra, the first explicit claim s of a unitary executive, and the attempt to put Robert Bork on the Supreme Court, which has colored Republican SCOTUS nominations ever since. Trump isn’t a novel Republican, he is the apotheosis of the modern GOP. He and his attitude towards the Constitution is where Republicans have been heading for decades.
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Mueller is still winding through the courts, and every court has summarily mocked the Trump team’s frivolous arguments. This is a timeline issue, but it’s hard to depend on a court where John Roberts is a swing vote.
This is not at all true. I wanted the Republicans’ votes on the record so we could destroy them in the 2020 election with it. It would be a huge error to not bludgeon each one of them with this every day in the run up. I have said this was all about Constitutional duty and doing something about the national security threat that is Trump. What we learned is that roughly 250 GOP members of Congress are not worthy of their oath to the Constitution.
I know you’re not serious that you think I said I thought there would be a conviction. I told everyone here well before it happened that there was a 100 percent certainty that he would be impeached in the House, and I said I wouldn’t even speculate on the Senate until they took their oaths (microbet correctly assumed this meant that I didn’t think they’d convict, but this was well before any actual articles were drawn up). Them not voting for witnesses was lol, as it was the easiest way for them to get 2020 election cover. The biggest surprise to most observers is that all Democrats held on conviction on both counts in the Senate. They had more that could have defected than we ever thought possible with the GOP.
Impeachment absolutely mattered, because it allowed the GOP to shamelessly shred the Constitution. It’s setting the precedent for our country in the future. It’s been esoteric until this point. It’s real now. Understand that no matter how bad you think things are now, we’re just scratching the surface with a neutered Congress and an unleashed Executive Branch.
How is any of the rest of what you wrote constructive? I mainly stopped posting here, because there was practically nothing constructive going on. It’s all about destruction. We might as well just burn it all down with your mindset. After 2020’s election, if it results in the wrong outcome, advocate that full stop. I’m not getting on board with not coming up with any solutions. I think several of my ‘solutions’ are the right move. You’re wrong that you don’t think a lot of Senators would vote for those reforms, but you aren’t gonna get a single GOP one to vote for that. They like leading as the minority, and will protect that at all costs like they just did.
I think you should spend your efforts trying to figure out how to tear down the GOP instead of saying WAAF. You had some good insight in the other thread related to marketing. Turn out is one thing, but both you and I know ‘good’ marketing changes the malleable minds of people like the Trump cult.
As for the next step in this ongoing horror show, think of the worst thing you can think of. It will be worse than that if we lose in 2020.
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Dude nunnehi you come back after being gone forever and immediately start dropping takes hotter than the sun like “the edems won’t fuck Bernie but will fuck Pete” with no explanation what so ever. Even though I’m sure there is no good explanation for this rationale why don’t you go ahead and fill us in what leads you to believe this?
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There have been tons of times in history where the corruption got too much. This is one of those moments. I always said open corruption was endorsed in the pit of darkness after midnight when Tom Price was confirmed for his cabinet position. He was massively corrupt, but somehow had enough shame to resign probably less than 6 months in.
In all those instances of historical corruption, the institutions actually did work on it with the will of the people. Most of the changes came from fear of the people actually revolting, but things had to get really bad to get to that point. This one just said the institutions don’t exist anymore. The president is King, the purse holder’s money can be spent however the King wants (or not if he doesn’t want it). The court is so ridiculously packed in the SC to the right that if they get that 7-2 majority coming in 2020 if Trump wins it will cease to matter as a branch either. Find a place in this country’s history where that’s the case, and I’ll read about it.
I do believe we have been in far worse off places than we are right now in this country’s history. It’s not hard to know that. But I do know that the threat we’re facing right now is far graver than many of those instances. Many of those instances could return on a much wider scale in the future. There’s no one to put a check on it. Like Riverman said, the cheat code was ‘lol fuck you’. It’s really hard to find people who will operate with no shame. No previous president ever wouldn’t have resigned under the current circumstances. And that’s what scares me. It’s also the sort of thing that really mobilizes people. It’s just too early to be determined and they are going to cheat their asses off in this election, since there are zero consequences for that.
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Reply 1:
I think the Dems are going to win the Senate, unless they really eff it up. At worst I think it will be 51-49 GOP (I’m projecting a Doug Jones loss in this equation). I wouldn’t be surprised to see 53-47 for Dems. Several of the Senators up are terrible, and made asses out of themselves in the impeachment, and the demos in those states aren’t getting friendlier for them. Of course, the cheating isn’t getting friendlier for the Dems.
If Trump is re-elected, and the GOP Senate holds, it’s over. Congress will be dead. The voters will have said they want a King. We will literally be living in a country taxing us without true representation. And you know what that meant for the founders.
Reply 2:
That’s Bill Barr for you. He was the architect of that. But it didn’t remove Congress’s oversight. They wanted broad executive powers, but you could still investigate wrongdoing. The acquittal on Article II literally says it’s okay to completely stonewall any investigation you don’t agree with.
And remember, they have never claimed Executive Privilege even once. They know that if they do that, it goes to discovery. Once wrongdoing is uncovered, Executive Privilege doesn’t apply. That’s why they won’t claim it, while using it as some odd defense. Everything the Trump team has done is absolutely frivolous and complete Obstruction of Congress.
The Congress just agreed with Bill Barr’s theory, and that’s the first time that ever happened to my knowledge. The Legislative Branch and Executive Branch are supposed to hate each other. They are adversarial in nature. But the GOP knows Trump is their last chance to pass any meaningful legislation to them with demographics running away from them. But the hilarious thing is that they’re completely incompetent liars. They’re essentially girding their loins for what they think the next 30 years will be through the courts. They rightly understand this is an existential moment for them too, and they don’t care if they cheat to win as long as they win. Even if it means their guy is a King, because they have to win. The problem with all of this is if Trump isn’t repudiated, we’re frankly just done.
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I haven’t done the numbers lately, but it seemed in 2018 a swing to dems in 2020 was extremely unlikely.
You do realize throughout this whole process that the eDems have yet to get behind Pete? I think that’s because they trust him just as much as you do. I think Pete’s lying about who he is, and the eDems think he is too. The way this forum thinks, Pete is essentially GOPlite. I don’t think that’s true. I think he’s somewhere between Biden/Klobuchar and Warren. He’s certainly likely left of Obama, but there’s no way he’s willing to run on that, especially since there are two other candidates already in that lane. Show me a 37 year old running for president, and I’ll show you someone who is all about expedience. It’s why I think he’s trying to hit hot button stuff. There’s a good portion of this country who just wants to stop the fighting. Pete is the antithesis in tone of Trump, and that’s why he’s finding some kind of following. The GOP senators are going to be running on unifying (lol) the country based on their impeachment speeches, so they probably think that’s a message that will resonate with those who say I wish the libs would stop being mean to me. They obviously don’t mean it.
The eDems are scared of Pete, Liz, and Bernie. They don’t control any of them, but they see the writing on the wall. They would prefer Bloomberg to any of those three, and if Bloomberg has a lot of votes, that’s who you should expect to be the nominee in a brokered convention (I don’t think this will happen, just like I didn’t think it would happen with Trump when the GOP was flipping out similarly to this).
The reason I don’t think Bernie will get ratfucked is that the eDems are super scared of his supporters not moving to other candidates, and even they, the dumbest people in the Dem party know Trump’s re-election is game over. It’s why a weirdo like Carville is freaking out so bad. He feels like not enough people realize that we have to win this election at pretty much all costs, and the GOP is going to cheat its ass off. We won’t win unless we are unified, and that’s why I believe Bernie will be the nominee. Not because they think he’s the best nominee, or who they want, but because his supporters are too big to piss off. If it’s something like 33%-32% with Pete over Bernie at convention time (it won’t be), I don’t think they’ll be giving the nomination to Pete, and think they would definitely give it to Bernie in that situation if they have to. Sorry if you don’t like that answer.
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The most reputable impeachment polls (there were hardly any impeachment polls to give you an indication of real riggage) ended up with anywhere between 48-50 percent wanting Trump’s removal, with only 43% wanting him to stay. Some were worse. Some of the ‘respected’ polls that drop once in a blue moon had different numbers (lower removal, but again almost every poll had the not remove portion as his base of 41-43 percent).
Trump didn’t win on impeachment at all. The GOP senate lost the most of all. Every American knows what a trial looks like, and the same people who were up in arms about every major miscarriage of justice will note this very thing. 80 percent of the public wanted witnesses, and the GOP gave no good reason for no witnesses other than ‘we don’t want them’. We just can’t account for the cheating.
I know you think you’re doing some whatever pill it is moment for me, but man you live in a world that not that many people live in. I also think a whole lot of institutionalists would disagree with your characterization of the Constitution. This is different than any other previous attack on it, a lot different. Stop trying to minimize it as no big deal. That’s going to play really badly with me.
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You’re not telling the truth here. ‘Half like him as King’. His electorate is 25 percent of the population, and probably lower, and his approval ratings are 43 percent (only skewed to that level by very biased polls). You use a lot of hyperbole, and trying to tell me this isn’t a serious crisis because ‘hey we’ve been in crisis for the last 250 years lol’ is not going to play at all with me. This. Is. Different.
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Conditions are way different in 2020. I wouldn’t have said the senate was in play for 2020 after the 2018 election (which went about as I expected), and would have projected it to first be in play in 2022. The work the GOP senators have put in has absolutely put the Senate in play in 2020, when it never should have been. After 2016’s election, they should have had a massive majority in the House and 60 in the Senate in 2018. They were too incompetent to figure any of it out, and it hasn’t gotten better for them since.
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Yes, but no conventional wisdom agrees with you. People way out on the wings agree with you. This is really different, and noticeable to every day people. It might take a few years for people to really get it, but it will be too late to do anything about it by then.
Remember, the courts have slapped down the Executive Branch every time, but the Executive Branch is going to use this impeachment as their green light, and they’ll just make sure all court cases take 8 years in the future. This is the one thing Trump is good at, frivolous lawsuits making real consequences against him hard to make happen (in the real world, he bankrupted the people with legal fees).
I personally believe the SC is going to take on McGahn (which they never would have in a real world) to set real precedent about how the courts can be used in matters such as this. Using the no ‘rulings’ gambit is bullshit because the courts have always encouraged the parties to work it out (and they almost always have, with the Executive Branch losing every other case). This is an extreme edge case of saying there are no consequences, and no precedent, and even this SC is gonna have a problem with that if they care at all about the Constitution. In many of the shots I saw of Roberts at the Impeachment Trial, he looked really pained about what they were doing to the Constitution. That could be a ruse, but we won’t know until there’s a ruling. He’ll be that swing vote.
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Frothing runs about 50/50 on right vs wrong things.
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Let’s listen to this man. He’s making some good points here.
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