That’s because straight white people are the majority of the population, which means running on their identity is viable. There are other viable strategies, but they don’t involve running against straight white people. That’s paddling against the tide in a pretty big way.
No one is “running against straight white people” FFS.
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You missed a portion.
And I should amend that to say that rich straight white male identity politics have been winning.
Gender isn’t a separate demographic that I believe in. I think every difference in voting behavior based on chromosomes can be explained by other stronger factors like level of education, social class, ethnic group, religion, and location.
I mean the majority of white women voted for Trump after the pussy grabbing tape. I think in 2020 women are different than men in a whole bunch of important things like income and educational attainment that DO count as demographics, and any attribution of voting behavior to gender can be explained by those more important things.
Like anyone who thinks women stand up for women doesn’t know many women IMO.
Even Lincoln gave speeches that didn’t condemn slavery.
To consolidate power in order to defeat slavery.
I’d say he acted morally. I tend to think if Lincoln didn’t use this insidious subterfuge and lost more support for the Union, which led to the South prevailing and slavery continuing, that the slaves would have regretted that he hadn’t.
It wouldn’t take that much Hispanic outreach to flip Texas and end the GOP as a national party, and people really think being Republican-lite is a viable strategy. smh. The left has no faith in the power of their own ideas.
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Did you learn this in a Women’s Studies course?
Do you even intersectionality?
There’s always a relative left and right and people don’t really care much where on the absolute spectrum the center is. The same kind of person as a USA Republican, with the same conservative bent in Denmark or Germany would think our health care system or homelessness are insanely laissez-fair. There are plenty of examples on 2p2 of Euro-conservstives who think M4A is untouchable.
Moving the center, the Overton window. is the whole thing.
Correct. Eurotrash constantly bemoaning US posters’ reference to “the left” of Bernie/AOC as “center-left at best” is always a jolly good show. They’re so smart, expect when it comes to understanding context.
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Right now, centrist Dems are often socially liberal, pro-corporate supporters of the military status quo. Would we better off if we could replace them with Dems similar to Bart Stupak, opposing abortion but also the Iraq War, voting for Obamacare and supporting unions. Would we better off if we could replace politicians who resemble Joe Biden with some who resemble Bob Casey? Some wouldn’t, but I would be way more enthusiastic about supporting someone like Casey for president than Uncle Joe or Mayor Pete.
All women may not stand up for all women, but they sure as shit do a better job of it than men do.
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I generally agree with this, and think the social justice Overton window needs to get yanked pretty hard leftward
What if Kobe Bryant believed in single payer and cutting defense spending by 75%?
Prove it or gtfo. Seriously other than a tiny percentage of women who take feminism suuuuper seriously (who I suspect are exactly as common as men who have similar beliefs) this doesn’t in any way track my experience… or polling data.
Probably 3 out of the 5 biggest misogynists I’ve ever met were women. If anything the median woman sees other women as competition. It’s a big part of the sexism problem.
People feel kinship with their actual kin. That means women feel more connected to their fathers, husbands, brothers, sons, etc than they do other women. The whole sisterhood thing is completely bogus outside their personal friend group.
To balance that I feel basically no kinship with ‘men’ as a group. Seriously none… and despite working in a male dominated occupation I think women tend to outperform at it pretty drastically over men.
So yeah when Trump lines up and fires full blown conservative identity politics he’s aiming at white people, men as well as women. The women in that identity group don’t have a problem with his behavior towards other women as scary as that is. That’s because in the giant collection of things that make up a person politically gender is a pretty small factor compared to the rest. 5% or less weighted, I’m basically certain of it.
A human being saying ‘I am a feminist’ or ‘I am not a feminist’ is a much better predictor of how they will vote than their genitalia. Feminists and anti feminists are identity groups. Men and women are not.
Trump getting elected is 100% what made me think this way. I was absolutely certain he was fucked with women after the pussy grabbing tape. Then he wasn’t. Women dgaf it turns out as long as he was pandering to their other political identities. Whether it makes any sense to us or not it’s statistically impossible that a large number of women who are themselves victims of sexual assault didn’t vote for Trump. I genuinely don’t get it either, but 2016 was extremely educational.
The gender gap is like 20 points. Dens cannot just abandon women and ever hope to win.
Speaking as n Ameri-trash poster, there is plenty of reasons to disparage such uses as “the left”.
- Since, as it seems, we are only considering play-acting as internal Donkey leaders y/o their paid “Mad-men” advisers here, why not explicitly state that? What possible good comes from someone intentionally using what is plainly and obviously a vague and ambiguous term [the left], when you could just spit out what you actually mean [the US Democratic Party]?
Simply making an good faith effort to communicate in clear and obvious manner is praiseworthy in the context of an interwebs forum. Doing the direct opposite, like gratuitously using the term “the left” is worthy of disparagement.
- One problem that we’ve already seen ITF is that this kinda sloppy word usage leads to pretty obviously brain dead reasoning. We’ve seen this regarding BLM here.
The brain dead reasoning is that both the Donkeys and BLM are part of “the left”, that BLM is making “messaging errors” by, well basically existing. The reality is that BLM is not at all part of “the left” in the same meaning of the term as the Donkeys are part of “the left”, and vise versa.
Using sloppy wordage like often easily this leads to logical errors like this, which then leads to groups outside and apart from the Donkey party being disparaged for not following the real (or play-acted and imagined superior) Donkey Party line.
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Maybe put ID politics on the back burner until the election. Running on populist policies related to the economy and health care seems to be far more effective and far-reaching.
I don’t want to derail too much, but I’ll respond to a couple things.
I don’t have any sort of polling data, so would gladly take a look if you’re aware of some. As Trolly pointed out, there is a huge gender gap in politics, which I think is evidence that women are more interested in standing up for other women than men are.
We don’t disagree that white identity is strong. I don’t think the presence of white identity invalidates the notion of female identity; it just outweighs it.
Overall, I disagree with the notion that feminist and anti-feminist are valid identities while male and female are not; in fact, I think that’s backwards. To tie it back to the main discussion, I am fine with politicians continuing to court the female vote by appealing to social justice in that realm (e.g., equal pay).
Someone who believes that women are equal to men in every way that matters and should be treated as such I guess?
Nearly every difference I believe exists between men and women is a strength for women. Like men are physically stronger and that’s it basically. I suspect most of the ‘differences’ wrt things like EQ are because of socialization and expectations we have about how men are supposed to behave. It’s pretty hard to train people to bottle up their feelings and never show them and then have them demonstrate high EQ basically.
I agree we shouldn’t derail the thread further. I agree that there’s a gender gap in voting, I just think that it’s attached to identities that aren’t gender. 60% of college degrees are being awarded to women now for instance… and women make less money than men so probably tend to fall into the poorer social demos more often.
Makes less money than a male tradesman but has a college degree (describes nurses and teachers just for a start) covers a LOT of women and I’m guessing that as demographics go it’s super super super liberal.
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Sure, but “should those who prioritize social justice and economic justice through socially democratic policies or outright socialism compromise on social justice issues” didn’t work as well as a thread title.
For what it’s worth, I used “the left” as it’s a term that is commonly used within this forum, and I (and most who use it, I assume) definitely do not consider Democrats and “the left” to be synonyms. In fact, it’s often used to differentiate from the centrist-leaning Democratic party at large.
I apologize for my egregious semantic failings.
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