Moderation

[clovis8]

Lol. Neither am I. No need to apologize.

[LouisCyphre]

@zarapochka

It were solely the members of working class who had the power.

The General Secretaries of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union

1953 - 1953 Georgy Malenkov (Engineer)
1953 - 1964 Nikita Khrushchev (attended the Industrial Academy)
1964 - 1982 Leonid Brezhnev (Engineer)
1982 - 1984 Yuri Andropov (Major General)
1984 - 1985 Konstantin Chernenko (career bureaucrat)
1985 - 1991 Mikhail Gorbachev (Lawyer)

[Sabo]

@zikzak

And more than a week later Sabo is still pitching a fit

This is also just flat out delusional. I haven’t mentioned you doing your willy-nilly since this football spiking post in the other bad posters thread over in France BBQ (quoted below). That was a whole week ago. Nobody has mentioned you doing your willy-nilly since. Nobody at all. That was all fetid water under the bridge. Nobody mentioned it for a whole week… until you did. And you did so with community destroying condescension and disrespect.

I don’t know what to tell you… except let it go, for goodness sake. Stop bringing it up, stop being disrespectful… just stop.

---

Ahhh… doesn’t that feel nice my fellow UnStuckers !!!1!

It’s like all of a sudden out of nowhere we were hit with by the Willy-Nilly Tsunami. A fetid title wave of random post shuffling and mysterious post deletions. Since April 1st our community has been battered and bruised. I alone suffered 147 posts cast adrift to wash aground into random threads along with 17 posts sunk without a trace. Our community was stressing out and was disintegrating into a cesspool of meanness. Who knows how many threads were vandalized? I know the landlord thread was destroyed by the WIlly-Nilly Tsunami for sure. Yesterday, the UnStuck community reached it’s nadir. Even dog pix couldn’t save the day.

@Sabo

I’m cool with whatever you want to do, so move whatever you want in what ever willy-nilly manner you feel.

But that would be the third time, and that makes a pattern…

So, instead of continually stirring the pot, which is exactly what you have been doing. How about this: try to be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem, Instead of shipping posts off willy-nilly as to continually be stirring to pot. Instead of making the situation worse and worse.

And then the pot stopped being stirred. Then the situation wasn’t being made worse and worse. Then the Willy-Nilly post shuffling stopped. Then the Willy-Nilly post deletion stopped. Then UnStuckers being mean to other UnStuckers just for the sake of being mean… well, started happening a lot less… we’re still UnStuckers, what can we say?

Cliffs: As soon as the community stopped being fucked with… the community mellowed out.

[RiskyFlush]

So a version of DK where a person is oblivious to the impact of their actions as a direct relation to X?

[microbet]

DK may have been FPS there on my part.

[RiskyFlush]

I rather liked it but was still working out how to articulate the thought

[anachronistic]

It was fascinating to see this play out in the Chernobyl scene where the female scientist tries to tell the guy that formerly worked in a shoe factory that was now in charge of the local government that he should listen to her and he brushed her aside.

[jerry]

There’s definitely something about engineers in refineries, in my experience, where you can just tell they don’t care about the hardships they put other people through. But it’s typically only seen in the younger ones and goes away with age. The big problems occur when they get into the management track too quickly.

[RiskyFlush]

Why fire someone when you can promote them?

[anachronistic]

Idk the only person that’s lived under the regime confirmed it so well ya know.

[anachronistic]

Trump tho

[microbet]

It’s a very interesting thing about the misuse of science from the authoritarian “left” and the authoritarian right. (Left in quotes because imo left really means egalitarian) The Russians ideologically wanted it to be true that traits are learned. The right ideologically wants it to be true that traits are innate.

The Russians who did the incredible research on breeding tame foxes had to pretend that the whole thing was about producing fox furs.

Of course the right misuses science and of course “liberal” capitalists misuse science too. Power does what it wants, not what is right.

[simplicitus]

Thanks for understanding my point, which is a basically a criticism of leftist thought. Like the US used to believe in the union movement bringing widespread prosperity to workers. It has to an extent, but those who have benefitted the most generally try to build a moat so they can protect their gains, be racist/nationalist, and pull up the ladder. Now, I’m all for more general and widespread prosperity (Germany does a decent job), but I think that depending on the workers of the world to get you there is how you end up with Trump. Why, because human being are not so smart, even folks like Marx, who was very smart. Instead, I’m for boring incrementalism, clear laws, and a strong safety net.

Simplicitus: banned for criticizing the ability of The People to fulfill their role in the science of history.

[simplicitus]

@microbet

No, he wasn’t. He changed his ideas back and forth repeatedly. He was an opportunist. He purged the idealists.

So you’re saying he wasn’t a true Scotsman?

[simplicitus]

Micro, you seem to think I don’t like the working class or whatever and that I support rich people or whatever. My actual concern, if you flip the script a bit, is that I think you’re an inveterate optimist. Source: the entirety of human history everywhere, macro and micro. Like how do utopian colonies end up: exploitation, hierarchy, sex abuse. Empower the masses and they’ll elect Trump to oppress the vulnerable and show those smug pointy headed experts that they aren’t so smart after all.

[microbet]

That’s right and using catch phrases like that is intellectual weak sauce. Do better Mr. Philosopher.

[microbet]

That’s bad in three ways. I don’t have time now and I’m not sure it’s even possible to get into it on a forum like this. That’s not saying much. It’s basically impossible to get beyond completely shallow trolling.

[microbet]

@simplicitus

Micro, you seem to think I don’t like the working class or whatever and that I support rich people or whatever. My actual concern, if you flip the script a bit, is that I think you’re an inveterate optimist. Source: the entirety of human history everywhere, macro and micro. Like how do utopian colonies end up: exploitation, hierarchy, sex abuse. Empower the masses and they’ll elect Trump to oppress the vulnerable and show those smug pointy headed experts that they aren’t so smart after all.

Ok, I’m just going to outline this.

1. I’m hardly an inveterate optimist. All you really know about me (that’s relevant here) is that I like local and worker organization, direct democracy, independent and direct action and such - not anything about how likely I think it is to have widespread success and influence in the world.

2. What utopian colonies are you talking about? Sounds like religious groups that are extremely hierarchical (as you mention). What non-hierarchical utopian experiments ended up like that? The kibbutzim more or less became either regular businesses or faded out as the next generation became normies. That’s not a failure though. The Spanish Revolution got destroyed by Franco and the Russia dominated communist party who had no interest in anything non-hierarchical. Rojava is still a work in progress, but is being attacked pretty relentlessly from the outside.

3. The cries about “populism” are all complete bullshit/bad faith. Maybe in a multi-party system or maybe congressional representatives can be something other than populist, but every single presidental candidate and president ever is and always has been a populist. Don’t tell me Obama or Bill were not populists. All candidates try to carve out some segment of the voting population that is big enough to win. “Empower the masses”??? You’re really making an argument for ending democracy and reverting to an aristocracy? And that’s better? I dunno, I really have no idea what you’re suggesting if it isn’t something like “people who are fighting for $15/hr are morons and hate science”, but that’s not how Trump got elected. As you already agreed, hating Mexicans and being white Christians is what got Trump elected. And if you want to split the intellectual branch of the Democratic Party from the Progressive Branch and ask who believes in science, I’ll ask you to look up Barack Obama and clean coal and then Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the Green New Deal.

4. Something on tactics/strategy. If it’s 1918-1922 and you’re in Russia or it’s 1945-1970 China, it’s probably a good idea to say “wait a sec, let’s not idealize the worker or the rural peasant”, but if you’re in 1930 Germany you sure as hell should not be going around warning people about the threat of organized labor. There is no threatening left in the US. Ask zikzak about the attendance of any kind of radical left demonstrations. On the other hand there’s an immense right, whether you mean right-wing Trumpy kind of stuff or just massive corporate power and culture. The ship needs to be steered and if you are scared to steer in the direction it needs to go and resisting that, you’re effectively steering in the wrong direction. And you say you like the way they handle things (corporations) in Germany (something you may have seen me post about)??? We’ve got a LOOOOONNNNNNG way to go to get anywhere near that.

[6ix]

@geewhysee

Can you guys please stop riling simp up? He just came at me like I’d insulted his mother over a pretty tame post in the LC thread.

@anon46587892

Are you saying you’re not a slapdick loser?

Rex : Just shut your pie-hole and keep working.

Marcus : “Pie-hole.” What’s that, some kind of cracker slang?

[6ix]

@simplicitus

@microbet

No, he wasn’t. He changed his ideas back and forth repeatedly. He was an opportunist. He purged the idealists.

So you’re saying he wasn’t a true Scotsman?

holy fuck dog putting in work and with such impeccable timing