No, you’re right. I was thinking about how Biden had 7M more votes vs Trump having 3M less and 1.5M more in their elections. Biden won by 4.5% in 2020 and Trump only by 1.5% in 2024. But that’s not how the greatest country in history measures election results.
Glad we agree!
Grunching. But looking at a map this size is the wrong scale.
For a supermarket to be usable it needs to be 5 minutes walk or so from your home. Or about half a mile by some definitions.
People who don’t own cars routinely have to walk far more than 5 minutes.
In Australia they also do a bunch of exploitative shit. Like a bunch of behavioural scientists who learned about nudge theory and went “hey. I wonder if we can use this for evil”
The one that really made me lose my shit was realising they put the juice cartons for kids at the far end of the chocolates and candy aisle.
Like the straight up evilness of that actually shocked me
Or other stuff like having three different price labeling schemes for meat on one set of shelves. So that they technically meet their obligations while making it as hard as possible to compare the value range, the mid price range and the premium range properly
2 Likes
have you ever carried a full load of groceries somewhere that is more than a 5 min walk? cmon
I’m don’t think there’s a single spot on my screenshot that is more than a half mile from a supermarket. 5 minutes is silly as a barometer - is a NYC resident considered to be in a public transportation desert if they’re more than 5 mins walking from a subway stop? Of course not.
you have to carry groceries….
Don’t argue with me. Go argue with the people who study this stuff. Maybe you can tell them of your idea that the folks in food deserts could just walk further?
This next part I’m speaking informed mostly by my experience in the UK of food deserts, both in living in one, and and seeing it discussed for areas I know.
If someone is walking all day, and is poor, they are almost certainly time poor as well.
As the supermarkets get further and further away, the more likely it is that people start relying on frozen or packaged food or eating at cheap fast food places. In the UK chicken and kebab shops are ubiquitous in these areas
I.e. a hungry and tired parent of two kids is not going to walk 10 minutes three times a week with bags to get fresh fruit and vegetables, even (or especially) if they walk to work every day.
Perhaps. I don’t know area or the supermarkets well enough. I’m just trying to get people clearer on what sort of distances cause problems.
I mentioned before where my daughter lived (near downtown Oakland) and it was probably a 20 minute walk to a decent grocery store. She could do it, certainly with a cart, and even one bag without, but it’s not easy and it’s not easy to take groceries on the bus. So, she probably shouldn’t have and I probably wouldn’t have, but she ended up spending way too much money at the nearby convenience store. And that’s a young healthy person.
1 Like
The LA in you is telling on you right now. I hated walking for groceries when I lived in downtown Chicago, but you just get a cart man. 5 minute walk is super super close.
As a non American I’ve been carless for much of my adult life. I’ve actually shopped repeatedly with trollies like this
Firstly. You can’t actually fit that much in one. It’s really 2 or 3 big grocery bags.
Second. Depending on how walkable your sidewalks are. You are pulling it over bumps, up curbs, etc, and they aren’t particularly stable. It’s a pain for me as a 6 4 grown ass man. For anyone with any mobility or health issues, it’s going to get hard
The best solution was to steal a shopping cart. I would always make sure to return in. But that added an extra 20 minutes to the shopping trip.
So if you see all the abandoned carts in low income areas .. that’s probably why
1 Like
Sure. It’s just that these are fairly common in NYC even in areas with an abundance of grocery stores. Plus sidewalk infrastructure here is great compared to the rest of the country. I’m probably being a little defensive here because as a carless New Yorker I’m used to talking to a lot of Americans who think this would be a terrible place to live.
This! If the free market’s so efficient then just go ahead and outcompete!
[but we know corporations, like Musk, just like to suck off the federal teat as much as possible]
Working hard! Thank you!
In college I lived 15 minute walk from a grocery store. Far closer to a bodega, but it’s Chicago so we didn’t call them bodegas. It was fine.
You’ll never convince me that everyone needs a full service supermarket 5 minute walk away. That’s insane. Bodegas exist for that purpose.
1 Like
I’m almost 62 years old, and prior to moving recently, I routinely walked 1/2 mile from Trader Joe’s carrying 2 filled shopping bags (the kind with handles).
I had a car, but walking is good exercise.
When I wanted to buy 2-liter bottles of soda, or anything else really heavy, I’d drive to a supermarket a mile-and-a-half away.
Nonetheless, food deserts are real, and lots of people would struggle walking a half mile with groceries, even with a collapsible cart
Lol.
I saw your original post and was like. Wait no way is he comparing his experience as a young healthy adult with lots of free time to actual working folks in low income areas, especially those with kids
The. I saw the edit… Yep. That exactly what he is doing.
2 Likes