yeah, this is correct, whoever they pick will be the “most radical librul ever” and is going to “burn your beautiful suburbs to the ground” or whatever, the lines never change
I mean, I think the probability that Trump successfully installs a nondemocratic system is significantly closer to 0% than 100% if that’s what you’re getting at.
Trump being in power leading to worse environmental outcomes and worse outcomes for humans in general is closer to 100% than 99%.
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Also you need to consider that a significant component of the long-term threat to democracy in this country is that some people view it as a betrayal when “the e-dems” win the presidency but then don’t enact a program of sweeping legislative reforms with their 47 senators. Electing a Democratic government with a meaningful capacity to actually govern is really important long-term.
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What people? I think one person on this forum has said that he wouldn’t vote dem because they betrayed him. (Riverman)
Not sure he uses the term e-dems, maybe ever
There is absolutely no evidence to support this claim. In fact there is mountains of evidence of it being the plan, not the least of which him literally saying it, Project 2025 having a public playbook to do it, and SCOTUS literally creating legal cover this very month.
It’s so weird how many people still don’t understand how much risk your system is at right now.
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Wait, in what way?
- The people feel betrayed
- ???
- Democracy is threatened
Like I’m not sure number 2 can even be “they stop voting Democrat” based on what other things you’ve said
- They abandon loyalty to organized political parties with coherent policy platforms in favor of romantic fixations on fringe candidates, weakening the parties in the process. Then one of the kooky guys gets in and all sorts of crazy shit happens because the kooks and their adherents escalate every issue to an existential crisis.
Fanciful, I know.
It being from a state with a Dem governor who can appoint the replacement is surely aiding the possibility. Seems the seat would still be on lockdown for at least two more years. I tried to confirm this by poking through Arizona law, but that just says that it gets filled in the next general election. Even though off years don’t have nearly as many races, I think every state has general elections every November just to run off what’s needed, so I did question whether it would be one additional year or two, but if this story is getting it right then it would be 2026.
Q&AZ: If Mark Kelly becomes VP pick, what will happen to his Arizona Senate seat? - AZPM
Anyway, if she arrived at the decision that Kelly was the clear best choice, I don’t tend to oppose picking him on the basis of potentially losing the last two years of the term even though that wouldn’t be ideal.
So you’re saying e-dem haters abandon(ed) loyalty to Democrats and vote(d) Trump? What evidence do you have?
Or you’re saying RFK Jr weakens democracy? Bernie weakens democracy? No offense, but your shit is vague beyond coherence
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Do independent voters weaken democracy? Do third parties inherently weaken democracy? Say what you mean, if you can
Democracy is when people remain loyal for life to one of two parties? To parties, not anything else?
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Like @Rugby says Walz has a lot going for him (he’s my favourite of all the VP candidates) and because he’s such an obviously decent man a lot of the attacks from the weirds won’t land while his attacks on them will.
Still, I’m a bit of a worrier and like to think about what arguments would be most effective against my position. If I were trying to formulate a basic Republican strategy I’d home in on Minneapolis and just hammer crime and homelessness. Check out this burning police building - its ruin still standing empty as a monument to lawlessness. Look at the size of these disgusting homeless encampments. Needles in parks where kids should be playing. Where is the law? Where are the police? 50% have left the force, leaving in their wake a massive rise in murders and assaults. Theft and the wanton destruction of property are through the roof. Governor Walz has presided over Minneapolis’ worst period of violence and lawlessness in decades and now he wants to make Minnesota a sanctuary state; importing the worst of California’s policy hellscapes and releasing it onto the streets of the mid-west. Here are the opinions of some very fine citizens at their wits end - Bob’s store was burned down, Amy’s daughter was raped by an immigrant. Don’t let their stories be the story of America.
I dunno, obviously a lot of the above is cherry picked and you might be right that they’d just level this attack at anyone. I do figure, though, that this angle of attack works more against Walz than others because he can be directly tied to the centre of the George Floyd protests. Walz chose this for Minnesota > Harris chose Walz for VP > don’t choose this for America is a simple argument that succinctly implicates Harris and ties neatly into the wider Republican narrative.
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More from Walz
“Listen to the guy, he’s talking about Hannibal Lecter and, you know, shocking sharks and just whatever crazy thing pops into his mind. And I thought we just give him way too much credit. And I think one of the things is, is when you just ratchet down some of the, you know, the scariness or whatever, and just name it what it is,” he continued.
context
Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz, who is seen as a contender to be Vice President Kamala Harris’ running mate, continued to attack former President Donald Trump and his running mate, Ohio Sen. JD Vance, as “weird” while defending Harris and the Biden administration’s record.
Walz told CNN’s Jake Tapper on “State of the Union” Sunday that he began labeling Trump and Vance as “weird” in an attempt to “ratchet down some of … the scariness” he sees in the Trump campaign’s policy proposals.
“Donald Trump is going to put women’s lives at risk. That’s 100 percent true. Donald Trump is potentially going to end constitutional liberties that we have in voting. I do believe all those things are real possibility, but it gives him way too much power,” Walz said.
“Listen to the guy, he’s talking about Hannibal Lecter and, you know, shocking sharks and just whatever crazy thing pops into his mind. And I thought we just give him way too much credit. And I think one of the things is, is when you just ratchet down some of the, you know, the scariness or whatever, and just name it what it is,” he continued.
Harris has been trying out a similar attack on Trump and Vance in recent days, saying at a Massachusetts rally Saturday that the former president was “resorting to some wild lies about my record” and that some of what he Vance were saying was “just plain weird.”
Walz would not share whether he’s been asked to submit vetting materials to the Harris campaign. When asked if he would join the Democratic ticket if offered the role, Walz said he “would do what is in the best interest of the country.”
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The hard part to figure is that Pete is just so much more known and recognizable. We basically know how people feel/will feel about him, but it’s harder to predict what will happen with the others once they are on a big stage.
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They will do this with literally any other candidate as well. Shapiro- “Look at all the homeless in Philadelphia. This guy is ruining a once great state with unparallelled crime numbers and his sanctuary city policies are bringing in hundreds of thousands of murderous immigrants !”
Etc etc repeat.
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Trump is lazy and stupid so even though all the pieces are in place for him to become essentially dictator I dont think he is capable of really doing the things to make that happen. He wants the cheap headlines/photo ops/attention and really doesnt care about the substance of any of this imo.
Possible I’m wrong there but if Trump wins i think we still have a real election in 2026 and 2028.