On 2p2 the suggestion that the Senate was undemocratic and unfair to states with large populations had someone responding with the suggestion of civil war. Don’t count on statehood for Puerto Rico, DC, undoing gerrymandering, voting rights act part 2 to be popular. That’s just Republicans losing the game and everyone knows it. They play the game to win. That doesn’t mean they don’t want healthcare.
Obamacare has been easy to attack because insurance premiums have continued to go up for most people.
This will be my last attempt at a reasonable conversation with you:
Why focus in on such nuance when the point is clear? Red marks on the face are a symptom of chickenpox. They are the result of chickenpox. Who cares? They are there and caused by chickenpox
Close. I think the system is the disease. Both the way the GOP and the Dems operate. X thousands people declare bankruptcy every year due to medical bills. That’s the symptom, result, or whatever you want to call it, of a failed diseased system. It shouldn’t matter where you work, if you work, or how much money you have. Everyone should be entitled to health care and to not die or go bankrupt because they can’t afford a medical procedure
That’s about the simplest example. It gets much more complicated when talking about jobs, minimum wages, corporate v private welfare, immigration, the military, etc. But it’s our political system that’s failed us. It’s not just Trump and it’s not just the GOP. Dems share the blame as well and that’s why I say you can’t win with a centrist or moderate. They won’t do enough to fix the system in a timely manner. Your way is to just win 2020 and hold course on hole filled rowboat and keep bailing out the water until real change can be made in 10 years. I’m saying we’re not willing to wait 10 years. The majority in this country agree with populist progressive views now. Let’s elect a real progressives and send the corrupt moderates home
Your main focus is on Trump, the human wart on our country and society right now. And while he’s a serious problem, the more pressing question we need to ask is why he was able to beat a moderate Dem who was by all accounts more qualified and what makes you think if we run another moderate it won’t happen again
I have nothing to add to this. This is everything I wanted to say except I’m too much of a math person t say it right, lmao
Actually, a decent example might be Reagan, who was insanely popular for exactly these reasons (the big issues back then were different, of course) and still managed to get tons of terrible shit passed.
As for this, i think this illustrates a larger problem in our party and its messaging as a whole, and that’s our overemphasis on the presidency and lack of interest in down ballot races (and I mean all the way down to fucking school board and dog catcher). As evidence, please see the # posts in the Who Will Run in 2020 thread vs. the # of posts in the Senate elections thread. I think 2018 might have signaled a change in this mindset, but we will have to see what happens in 2020 to determine if that was just a one-off.
I’ve donated roughly 10x as much money to Senate and House people as I have for the Democratic primary fwiw. Granted my total budget is roughly 2x the max donation for any candidate, but I’ve spread it around pretty good. I don’t know if anyone else learned the lesson of downballot races mattering but I sure did. The reason I don’t discuss the down ballot races is that by and large they are way way less interesting than the main event.
Very thoughtful and well outlined post skydiver8, but what you’re really suggesting is compromise. When do the Republicans ever compromise? Obama was all about Compromise and look where it got us. He wasted most of his political capital. Fuck compromise! We must go for it all and let Persons B, C, and D make their decision about what’s more important to them
I think my last post best explains the mechanism by which I believe centrists are hurting the Democratic party. Their willingness to compromise. That’s really nunnehi’s whole game plan. “Hey all you people wanting single payer healthcare, racial and gender equality, a cleaner environment, and other good things while putting a stop to industrialized military and prison complexes, wealth disparity, and the evil system rigging… It’s gonna take 10 years to get what you want accomplished, so in the meantime, let’s compromise”. What has compromising ever got us? We place nice, while the GOP plays dirty. They’re evil. Not to mention all the Dem centrist politicians who are also corrupt AF. No thanks.
My heart says we should appeal to the so-called base. But what frustrates me is that it seems like the progressive base is screwed by the electoral collage, the distribution of congresscritters, and gerrymandering in exactly the same way as the Democratic party. Only worse.
I guess I’m not offering anything practical, other than that the system puts the party in a box. But I guess I think the best plan for now and the future is being bold and loud about things like social justice and assuming that that is the best way to both turn out and grow the party in general, even if it means getting squeezed occasionally (and sometimes at great cost) in the presidential elections and the makeup of Congress.
