The streets factor is very much a big thing here in Euroland where traffic levels have rocketed over the past few decades.
I would prefer to look at some actual evidence like a study where they measured energy expenditures of those two groups and the effects (if any) on obesity rates instead of just assuming that it is true.
human trafficking ?
dunno why I challenged you on that, itās boring. what era was more crime-riddenā¦ what corner of the globeā¦ for what reasons.
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Testosterone
Studies have been done on this idea. In particular, researchers studied a still-existing tribe of hunter-gatherers in Africa.
Results:
In fact, even though total energy expenditure did vary considerably by age, gender and by body size, as anticipated, when the researchers looked at men of the same age who each weighed, say, 130 lbs., there was no discernible difference by lifestyle group in total daily energy expenditureā¦ Those results are all the more surprising because the Hadza did appear to expend much more energy in physical activity, as they hunted and foraged. But activity differences did not translate into differences in total energy use. Whatās more, even among members of the same society, Hadza people who walked a long way each day did not have measurably higher total expenditure than individuals who did not walk so much. It seems that peopleās metabolisms may compensate somewhat for activity level.
The new findings seem to contradict popular beliefs that weight management is simply a matter of balancing what we eat with enough purposeful physical activity.
āThe similarity in [total energy expenditure (TEE)] among Hadza hunter-gatherers and Westerners suggests that even dramatic differences in lifestyle may have a negligible effect on TEE,ā the authors conclude in their study, which is published this week in the journal PLoS One .
This is what I mean about unfalsifiability, though, because youāll now just retreat into another argument about lifestyle. Studies do tend to show, for example, that Americans eat more calories now than they did in the 1970s. But why is this so? Commonly the answer is:
This is utterly unfalsifiable, because āself-controlā has no meaning except in retrospect. If I did good things for my health it means I had it; if I did bad things, it means I didnāt have it. Itās just a way of dressing up the facts of someoneās behaviour. You canāt say āI had good self-control this week but ate an icecream after dinner every nightā, it doesnāt make sense. To say one had self-control is simply to say that the historical record shows that oneās intentions and behaviour were in alignment.
@LFS posted upthread that he lost 100lb. But he also was completely unable to quit alcohol without the support of AA, heāll tell you himself that he would never have managed to quit solo. Is he a person with low or high āself-controlā? How would we go about answering that question?
I lost 35 lbs on my trip in Mexico and Central America - and for a big part of it I didnāt need a tums - when Iād been eating them like candy for over a decade with no break of more than a few days.
There has to be some chemical shit we put in the food in the US that causes my acid reflux. I thought it might be coffee, which I barely drank in Mexico. But I stopped drinking it altogether back here and still get acid reflux. But in Mexico I went like 2 months w/o taking a tums. I donāt eat processed stuff like frozen dinners or anything either.
Iām not saying that same thing makes you fatter in the US. But it makes me wonder how much other crap weāre getting in our diets somehow.
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Itās probably environmental. People who live in big cities have higher rates of anxiety, depression and schizophrenia, as well as elevated cortisol levels and elevated activity in the amygdala.
Personally I frequently get reflux and gastritis, sometimes to the point of dry-retching, when I first go away on vacation, like in the first 48 hours or so. I am not consciously stressed about going away, but it has happened too many times now to be a coincidence. The effect of the environment on the brain and the subsequent effect that has on the body is still an underrated variable and is very likely to be a piece of the obesity puzzle.
I used to not shit in a new environment. I once went 2 weeks at summer camp w/o taking a shit. True story.
By the way, tums is some low-tech shit. Get Nexium, itās great.
Edit: Nexium as in esomeprazole, the medication. I do not recommend joining Keith Raniereās cult.
Shit I just branded myself.
Iāve been on omeprazole since my endoscopy. It works great, no tums. But Iām supposed to try to cut down because you donāt want to be on it forever. For a while I was down to 5/week but lately if I try that I can feel it creeping in.
as a species, we are equipped to adapt. survival of the fittest maybe.
alcoholism existed centuries ago, and some corrected course, and some didnāt, and without a group circle
I agree. I know I came across as dismissive, but advocates come across as identity politics come across
itās their experience, but itās not a universal experience. cold turkey is just as valid. and those who bit the bullet cold turkey are curious why others canāt endure what they endured. they arenāt Superman. or maybe they arenāt curious, and just live free of stupid theorizing 
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This is really interesting example because it suggests all kinds of useful thought experiments.
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On a habit / behavioral dimension this suggests that the thing to do is not to try to muster the discipline to carefully measure out your servings 14 times per week at the point in time when youāre hungry and just trying to get the food in a bowl, but rather to measure out 14 servings every Sunday.
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You also didnāt mention that even if one solves the cereal measuring problem youāve still got the milk measuring problem. But the milk is also an opportunity - you could over time drift from whole to 2% to 1% milk and reduce calorie intake with no huge habit change.
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There is a certain forest for the trees aspect to carefully measuring out serving sizes of hyper processed vitamin enriched sugar to eat for breakfast every day.
The answer to this is potentially very interesting:
If there are structural issues beyond consumer choice and activity that are driving obesity than it might make sense to tackle those before pouring guilt trips on overweight people.
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There is a viable theory about gut microbiomes that might explain this pattern. I personally have a hard time separating legit science about āgut stuffā from the weird pseudo science stuff, but if you assume that a) gut microbiomes really do majorly influence our weight and b) that changes in diet and exercise influence the gut microbiomes, then something as subtle as eating more fiber and walking more could have a surprisingly big impact.
Ok. What about the underlying data in the study, and commentary from the scientists?
Thereās some sincere discussion on this thread for sure, but in the broader social attitudes to weight gain/loss guilt tripping overweight people is probably the most common approach by far.
Our ancestors havenāt been hunter-gatherers for quite some time. I donāt think itās a relevant comparison.
I canāt believe you want a citation on something this obvious but here we go:
https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2006/03/art3full.pdf
Less and less people burn high amounts of calories at work. Do you really doubt whether reduced energy expenditures contributes to obesity?
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I think that paper just shows the increase of the population percentage in desk jobs, not calories burned per job.
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Yes? Do you think an office worker burns the same amount of calories as a manual laborer?
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