I understand on-demand as lacking a medical or criminal indication.
Abortion “on demand” means abortion for any reason at any time. The majority of Americans want abortion to be legal in some but not all circumstances. They think abortion should be legal if the health of the mother is involved. They generally don’t think it should be illegal if the woman feels she cannot afford to raise a child or to select the sex of the baby.
A big part of this that no one ever understands is that an abortion is a pretty drastic and horrible experience. There’s not a lot of people just out getting them for frivolous or irresponsible reasons.
I once helped someone through their abortion through pill and it was like a 2 day ordeal that made her feel like she was dying. She had hormonal problems for months and months afterward. It’s not a walk in the park. Then there’s sometimes lasting psychological issues that stem from the experience.
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guys I get what it means the point is that we shouldn’t concede this language to them. it basically legitimizes their nosing into the woman’s business
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Right now we’re not trying to change her opinion on the issue, we’re trying to change her vote in the election.
I don’t know if this is a winning argument, but depending on how old she is, ask if she wants to collect Social Security some day. If she’s young, she ain’t getting it without immigration.
That’s a good point, and could be incorporated into a larger perspective of the efficacy of social programs vs let the free market decide if you eat dog food or not when you retire.
I really appreciate everyone’s input.
A little more insight into how this came about. My friend and I have been tagteaming ~8 of his conservative relatives on a group text. They don’t know that I’m participating. Basically, my buddy sends me their side of the conversation, and I hammer out a couple/few paragraphs of rebuttal that he incorporates into his responses.
Like many people on UP, I’m able to connect dots and bring up points that aren’t necessarily top-of-mind for my friend who doesn’t pay as much attention to history and current events, but knows that Trumpism=danger to humanity. Which is why when she texted him she said “I am asking you this because I perceive you as being very intelligent and more thoughtful than you let on. (I mean that it a good way…lol!)”. She thinks he’s intelligent and thoughtful now because he was copy/pasting my stuff! lmao. I’m gonna give him shit about that for a while. He’s a good dude, but just about everyone’s first impression of him is that he’s an arrogant self-absorbed douche bag.
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Spoke with my 78 yr old moms over the weekend. I told her shit is getting real with covid where i live.
She spoke before she caught herself, “Do you think they are doing it because of the election?”
I was speechless for a moment.
“doing what?” i replied
“you know, so they wont vote” she said
i explained that it being fake news or whatever is drawing pretty thin in the reddest county in merica.
She then said she was just joking. She wasn’t joking.
I feel like she is a victim(willing maybe), almost brainwashed with propaganda/disinformation .
I have no idea how to deprogram her.
Is there a thread about how to combat disinfo here?
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God bless you people who are willing to engage undecideds or Trump-adjacent morons. I simply can’t do it.
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Cyrano de Bergerac of politics.
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Dammit, came to post “Cyrano de Biden”
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That’s how I think of Unstuck. People think I have so much insight, but I’m secretly cribbing the most-liked posts.
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I’m going copy and paste some post I saw on abortion from reddit. Not like this would change a cult members mind
The Democrats are a lot more anti-abortion than the Republicans.
Democrats more often support comprehensive sex ed, rather than abstinence-only sex ed, which leads to more unplanned pregnancies and more abortion.
Democrats far more often support measures to expand access to birth control, which Republicans constantly oppose and try to repeal. More access to birth control = fewer unplanned pregnancies, and few abortions.
Democrats support expanding health care to the working poor, working people who make too much for old Medicaid, but not enough to afford private insurance, or who have pre-existing conditions. More access to health care = better care for moms & babies, and no bankruptcy when uninsured are faced with hospital costs = better care = fewer people who would choose abortion.
Democrats support expanding employer protections and better wages. A woman who makes more money and isn’t facing the possibility of being fired for being pregnant or wanting to be with her newborn baby is more likely to say "I can do this, I have the support I need, and less likely to choose abortion.
If you want to eliminate abortion, Vote Democrat.
The Republican agenda is just “take over the courts and ban abortion from a legal standpoint”, but this just results in more unsafe illegal abortions. Isn’t this the same party that always says “If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.”?
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If there is a more appropriate existing thread, I’m not sure which it would be.
I feel for you. My parents are early 70’s and it’s basically impossible to combat all of the misinformation that they are seeing on TV or whatever internet rabbit holes they fall down. They’ve been groomed from birth to fall for reactionary propaganda.
Example: my dad emailed me some 4k word quillette article and wanted to talk with me about it. It was written by some right-wing zionist who was making the claim that American media, corporations and educational institutions are being overrun by Marxists, and Trumpism is defending us against that boogeyman. Of course the author didn’t identify any Marxist person by name, and the only media company that he cited as being overrun by Marxist was known paragon of communism: The NY Times. My dad also couldn’t name a single person or American company that was Marxist. I spent an hour on the phone with him talking about just that article. Maybe I made a dent, but I’d wager my dad is voting Trump in part to stop the Marxism and Atheism from ruining the world.
Sometimes I wish I had no ethics and could just grift evangelical christian boomers.
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Getting a little feed up with completely ignorant non political yet self assured and smug trump/Republican voters at work…give me a knowledgeable rep any day at least they know what they are voting for.
Me: ACB is going to mess up healthcare and abortion and worker rights along with a bunch of other stuff for a long time.
Them: Lol no she is not.
From the person who could not name another justice and supports health care for all. The person who is in a public union which the Janus act is killing. They don’t even know the polices of the people they support. And do it with complete confidence and arrogance.
If trump wins I’m going to need a week off work so I don’t get into any fights because my fuse is so short. Think I need to start smoking a lot of pot again…oh fuck…
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There’s no point in trying to win over someone like you because you’ve signaled that nothing reasonable can win you over.
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There is the Jason Miller type:
Counterpoint - fruit smoothies contain many valuable nutrients.
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Was just on the phone with my father-in-law.
Did a literal reenactment of the American Chopper “No. That’s socialism” meme.
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