O ye of little faith
So I logged into this place for the first time in a while (longer than I realised!), saw the āvote now on moderation stuffā banner and read the proposals then skimmed a few replies. Seems pretty reasonable, I thought. I like the idea of rotating mods as itās consistent with the co-op style ownership that was one of the goals when this community left 2+2. So I voted yes to both.
Scrolled further down the replies in the hope of catching up with the current mood. Got the uncomfortable impression that this whole thing has been contrived as a way of getting rid of an existing mod (Wookiee) who was great on 2+2, so now Iām a little embarrassed for voting so hastily on a topic I hadnāt researched. So now Iāll go catch up with a few monster threads and try to get a feel for the place and see how my fond memories hold up. Iāll be pretty disappointed if it turns out this place has gone the way of 2+2 and become overrun with aggro Trump/Brexit nutters who demand the heads of any mods who get in the way of their incessant nastiness. Hereās hoping thatās not the case!
So if anyoneās keeping score, put me down for āvoted yes on blind principle, but a big fan of the moderation of this place as I remember it, which admittedly may now turn out to be a bad position.ā
Good chance Iāve completely misunderstood the vibe of this thread. Iāll go lurk a bit and catch up.
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Youāve hit the thread pretty much on the nose (other then the trump/Brexit part). You can change your vote. A yes vote is absolutely a vote to get rid of the current mods because a certain group of posters couldnāt get rid of those mods in a straight up or down vote and really really hate Wookie.
Considering itās getting 66 percent yes right now, thatās quite a large ācertain groupā of posters that hate Wookie.
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I mean, you captains did a genius job of making it look like an innocuous good government type of thing that most donāt realize is just the latest attempt in your never-ending vengeance crusade against the current mods.
Thatās a pretty serious personal attack against meb, the originator of this effort.
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Weird spot to be in, calling the people youād like to change their votes stupid like youāre doing here.
In case anybody is reading this thread only, Iāll again explain my No vote:
And yes, you can change your vote until the poll closes.
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Not stupid, ignorant. And being ignorant of forum drama is, if not commendable, at least understandable.
No offense taken on my part. As has been noted, I have my own misgivings about it. Whether it passes or not. I hope people move forward with a spirit of trying to improve the community here.
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Discussion of rotating mods goes back to July/Aug 2019 on exiled and is not about Wookie, not for me anyway. Donāt let it be about Wookie (or the ācaptainsā) for you.
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Too bad any good faith arguments about it have been usurped by the ridiculous vice principalās tantrums and subsequent withdrawal from the field. But if you think you can build a community by preventing volunteers from helping you are probably also amongst the people who think you can reduce garbage by eliminating waste baskets.
I donāt understand your point. My entire reason for proposing rotating mods was to increase community involvement. I always did and do prefer no moderation, but did not consider that politically feasible.
But as far as your analogy goes:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/hbr.org/amp/2008/06/how-tiny-trash-bins-create-big
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Of course you donāt. The VPs have an amazing talent of not understanding points that portray them in a bad light.
People who donāt have waste baskets at their desks at the office donāt generate less trash, they take more time walking it to the closest trash bin.
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I donāt know what you mean by āVPā and Iām at a complete loss about how what you said could even possibly put me in a bad light. I think itās amazingly clear what Iāve been advocating for and why since Iāve been 100% consistent about and modeled the behavior myself for two years.
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So you would describe, for example, my advocacy of a mod-rotation system as a never-ending vengeance crusade against the current mods - does that seem accurate to you? If so, what do you believe Iām trying to avenge?
It was different on 2p2. It was different because the ultimate reason for that board to exist was and is to serve as a promotional tool for Two Plus Two LLC, to act as an enhancer of brand awareness, engagement and goodwill etc. Underneath everything was an ultimate, overriding concern: the profit margins of Two Plus Two LLC.
It made sense, then, for there to be strict enforcement of fairly narrow rules, and for that enforcement to be carried out only by people strictly vetted by 2+2 or by people trusted by 2+2 to do such vetting. It couldnāt be left to the community, because that posed a risk. 2+2 wasnāt and isnāt in the business of providing message boards. Itās in the business of selling poker strategy guides etc. Come and chat about politics and have a little fun, letās say. As long as you donāt threaten 2+2ās bottom line.
This place, however, is in the business of providing message boards. This place only exists because we wanted a place to chat about politics and have a little fun. We made it, we paid for it. It exists not to serve some other, unrelated purpose, but simply to exist. That being the case, Iām not at all sure why you would expect the modding arrangements to be the same. The same concerns donāt apply. And if Iām not sure why youād expect that, Iām frankly baffled that youād want it - or expect and anticipate that everybody else should. Come chat about politics and have a little fun, as long as MrWookie and some of his chums say itās OK?
And Iāve made the point elsewhere, in earlier discussions, that bias is inevitable. Habits creep in. Previous decisions inform current ones. In a community this size, that will inevitably lead to rancour - rancour that will, given enough repetition, spill over into reflexive, habitual hostility. I never pitched mod rotation as a cure for all ills, just for the specific ills being discussed - constant allegations of moderator bias, bitter dissent over moderator decisions, you know yourself. Iāve never seen a rebuttal to those points that exceeded simple personal incredulity.
Maybe jman is right? Maybe Iām just this evil genius and Iāve somehow (with help from other, similarly malicious prodigies) concocted a series of entirely disingenuous arguments which, as things stand, have us on course to partially adopt our recommendations. You think? Iād argue that both my general posting history and Occamās razor suggest otherwise.
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What weāve seen is that new mods didnāt cure this, and that former mods are still part of the rancor. So why is the singular focus on the mods then?
Your draconian banning program didnāt seem to cure anything either, I assume that will be done away with as well?
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Good observation.
What we need is mod rotation to solve mod rancour.
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