Can it really be that simple? I guess why not? Feels like cheating somehow lol
I just really want to understand the brewing process. Like there would have to be a point where adding water afterwards would lead to under extraction right? But this is definitely a way to enjoy my coffee until I nail down brewing. Thanks!
Yes. Itās called a bypass.
No, it would only lead to higher extraction. The extraction and strength of the coffee are two different concepts which is sort of confusing. Think of extraction as the total mass we remove from the beans by dissolving it in our brew water.
Say we start with 20g of coffee and brew a V60 with 300g of water. If we wanted to weigh the grinds at that point, weād need to completely dry them in an oven to get an accurate reading (the water absorbed by the grinds is why you donāt get 300g of coffee out). We dry them completely and measure 16g of coffee. That means we extracted 4g / 20g, which is an extraction yield percentage (EY%) of 20%. That says nothing about strength though. To get strength, we need to calculate total dissolved solids (TDS) as the amount of coffee extracted divided by total beverage weight. The amount of interstitial water will vary, but letās just say itās 1.5x the weight of the grinds. For this example, that leaves 4g coffee / 274g beverage out = 1.46%. That means our brewed coffee is (theoretically) composed of 1.46% coffee solubles and 98.54% water. Very standard.
Recap: Brew 1
EY%: 4g / 20g = 20%
TDS: 4g / (300g - (1.5*20g) + 4g) = 1.46%
Instead of pouring 15:1, letās now assume we pour something crazy like 30:1, so 600g of water to 20g coffee. I donāt know how much more coffee weāll remove from the grinds by weight, but itās obviously more than zero. Iāll just make something up here and say itās an additional 2g. Doing the math for that I get
Brew 2
EY%: 6g/20g = 30%
TDS: 6g / (600g - (1.5*20g) + 6g) = 1.04%
So here you can see that Brew 2 has a much higher extraction yield but much lower strength (the difference between 1.04% and 1.46% in coffee TDS is enormous in terms of perceived strength). Furthermore, that additional extraction we achieved will contain mostly disgusting flavors.
You can get an idea for how the coffee extracts by partitioning your brew into parts. For example, grab two mugs and brew the first half of your V60 water into the mug #1, allow the cone to drain completely, and then brew the remaining half of your water into mug #2. Taste the difference between them: first will have most of the flavor but be extremely overpowering, and the second will mostly taste like extremely weak and bitter coffee water. You can add them back together to get a complete brew, pour a bypass into mug #1 instead of adding mug #2, etc.
Very informative but Iām going to have to absorb this a few times lol
Couple of dumb questions:
Iām weighing the full beans before grinding them (not after theyāre ground) because I was under the assumption that a whole bean and ground bean will be the same weight. Is this true? If not, this could explain why my brews are coming out so extremely strong. Like I canāt even imagine doing 20g and 300ml of water. I just completed another with 18g and 300 ml and itās STILL too strong!
Itās also possible I donāt know what Iām tasting. Too bad they donāt have coffee tastings like they do for wine lol. That way, Iād know what it is Iām tasting as in ok so thatās bitter! Thatās strength! Etc. Currently, the only way I can describe it is that thereās a strong taste almost as what youād expect if you were to put the ground up beans straight into your mouth raw without brewing. Just a strong coffee ish taste. But it may be bitter as well and I just donāt know. Itās not bitter like a lemon or anything. Doesnāt make me pucker
Anyway, thanks so much for this and your time! If I ever get to a somewhat normal cup Iām going to delve into all the nuances you seem to know. Right now Iām just trying to get something thatās enjoyable to drink. Iām not there yet
Oh the other dumb question was if I should be taking apart my grinder and clean it after each use and if not, then how often? Iāve only been cleaning the parts I can get to without taking it all apart.
Should be the same weight or slightly less. If itās less, then thatās due to retention.
Kind of sounds like youāre still grinding too fine. But like @pvn said, if you find the strength to be too high, you can just pour some water into the final brew to dilute it. Hereās my grind from today compared to a quarter:
No. Once a month seems fine. Maybe even less for a hand grinder.
Thanks thatās a good reference. Mine is finer than this. Iād say about as fine as your smallest granules in that pic. But you also have quite a few bigger pieces and mine are all the same size as your smallest ones if not slightly smaller. I agree Iām still too fine and need to go coarser still. Iāll try to take a pic next time
I found this:
Not sure I understand exactly how the mechanism works or where you are on this chart, but if ā2ā is dead middle, then pour over could be as high as ā3ā on here. I dunno how many clicks that is though.
Yes I saw this! But Iām unclear how to calibrate. My understanding is that you tighten it as far as it will go and then you can dial 3 full turns before it should come off. In between are the coarseness settings. I turned it 1 full turn and then another 1/2. Iām now 3 notches past that! I started at the 22-24 setting and am now up to about 26. I think I need to go a little further just past 28
Oh waitā¦ That would put me at 16, not 26. No wonder Iām still way off! Dumb!! 
This is perfect! Thank you
Can we diagnose anything from this filter bed? I canāt tell if itās too coarse or too fine or if itās normal looking or not. I upgraded my water to crystal geyser, feels smoother, still want to say itās slightly bitter but I donāt have anything to compare it to, for all I know itās how this coffee is supposed to taste. Just over 3 mins on the drain time.
It looks good other than some high and dry grinds. I know people say ādonāt pour on the sidesā but you can def hit the sides with a splash to knock everything back down into the slurry. Mine generally look like this:
Iād guess youāre still grinding too fine. Try grinding at 8+ and see what happens if you havenāt already. Thatās definitely a pretty dark-looking roast, so maybe bitterness will just be part of the profile. Not all bitterness is the same though: dark roasts have a carbon-tasting bitterness with a smoky, charcoal flavor and itās noticeable up front. Lighter roasts produce bitter flavors that are more grassy / herbal / vegetal and are most noticeable in the finish and aftertaste. This might be a tough exercise but try to classify the bitter notes. If you can detect any of the vegetal bitterness in the aftertaste then itās almost certainly overextracted.
Tip: Another thing is that some people use a lower water temperature for dark roasts. You could try hitting it with water thatās under 200F, maybe as low as 190F.
Are you getting any fruit notes at all?
That looks closer to mine than Lawnmowerās, so Iām guessing youāre still a bit too fine
I went with a much coarser ground with Brew #5 today and coffee was almost normal in strength! Still had a bitter taste however. It also didnāt bloom properly (not sure why). Total brew time was just over 2 minutes, which seems fast for 18g of coffee. At least Iām now in the ballpark tho
You should probably pick up a light roast from a good roaster. That way youāll know if bitterness is a result of your process or the roast itself.
Iām still searching for one in my state. I found a list but many seem to be cafes. Thank god Iām currently using a cheaper bean tho. Iāve wasted a lot just getting close to a normal cup. But I should be ready now to experiment with the good stuff lol
Forte BG can go up to about 1,150 microns, so Iād probably just set it to MAX and try to pour a normal V60 at 195F or lower. The hot bloom seems like a lot of trouble for someone just trying to get their first good cup and Iād avoid it for now.
Thanks. I bought into the āknock grounds down with waterā technique super early so Iāve been doing that. The last picture was what was left after the final pour left me with no more water to do that with. I made another cup this morning with a flatter bed and full coarse on the grind. Still looked finer than yours but at least noticeably more coarse. Very light bitterness on that cup and not necessarily unpleasant so Iām guessing it just might be the way this roast tastes. Also noticed some slight acidity with that cup so I might try the next one around a 9. Nothing has had a very strong flavor yet though beyond a general coffee taste.
Sounds like youāre headed in the right direction so maybe keep backing off on the water temperature now. Iām thinking that slight acidity is about as high as it goes, but you should be able to pull a faint fruit note out.
This video was useful. Iāve narrowed in what I think is a pretty good grind size (considering beans and other variables) at 9M. I was getting a smooth feel with no noticeable bitterness or acidity. Always had water temp at 88C. Kind of boring flavor otherwise though. Tried the hot bloom this morning. Canāt say for sure if it was that or some other variable that just happened to work out but it was better. I still canāt get really strong flavors but everything seems to be going the way it should. Iām going to try to stop by the shop I ordered beans from this weekend and get a cup of the same stuff from them to see if Iām missing anything. Maybe pick up a medium or light roast while Iām at it cause I could definitely do with some stronger flavors.
