The recommended weekly maximum by the NIAAA is no more than 3 drinks in any one day and no more than 14 drinks per week. That puts you in low to moderate risk of problem/dependence drinking.
They define heavy drinking as 4 or more drinks on any given day.
Now, I guess you can make an argument that these limits are purposely conservative but this is a very well studied topic with science behind it, it’s not just pulled out of thin air.
I know we dont want this discussion here and I’m sorry to feed it but I think some of what you are saying victoar is wrong and a little irresponsible.
My own personal experience is that even lite drinking has detrimental effects like reducing sleep quality. Honestly I think the health argument for complete abstinence from alcohol is pretty damn strong but its also kind of futile to make that argument.
I am extremely confused by your post and what you are trying to say here so I am going to try to interpret it in the most charitable sense because it comes off really a certain way that I don’t like.
One, I am not addicted and never have been. If I was, what I am doing probably would not work, but it has for me. Two, I don’t and never have considered AA the sole authority on quitting alcohol and I find problems with most (if not all) of what they preach. I don’t think you need to believe in a higher power to quit drinking, for one. So their words mean absolutely nothing to me, nor should they mean anything to anyone participating this thread EXCEPT for people in the program who are finding success with it.
AA is not the only way for alcoholics to quit drinking, that is just what they teach. I have an alcoholic friend that is finding enormous success with medication and therapy, and there are faithless alternatives to AA that exist out there. I support AA for anyone who it helps, and I have seen it help people. I just don’t (and I don’t think the science would say this either) think that it is the only way to quit nor are people here saying so.
That’s right, the science shows that drinks help you fall asleep but then you don’t get as much rest while sleeping. So you might doze off after a couple of glasses of wine, but when you wake up you feel very groggy and still tired.
This has been very evident for me just by looking at my overnight heart rate activity (based on my watch, which has a heart rate sensor). When I’ve had even one beer, my overnight resting heart rate is noticeably higher than when I’ve had nothing. And the more I have, the higher the heart rate.
Edit: pretty sure that’s true even if it’s an early evening drink.
Look man, you don’t speak for AA, and neither do I. The fellowship gets its name from the book Alcoholics Anonymous which does not say what you say it does. Here’s the paragraph from which the quote you have mischaracterized comes from:
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our
path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not
completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and
women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves.
There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been
born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a
manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less
than average. There are those too, who suffer from grave emotional and
mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to
be honest.
Upon therapy for the alcoholic himself, we surely have no monopoly. Yet it is our great hope that all those who have as yet found no answer may begin to find one in the pages of this book and will presently join us on the high road to a new freedom.
I am usually good at avoiding getting drawn into this shit so I’m going to stop now and just once again state that nobody speaks for AA, not me, not your friend’s uncle who has been sober 40 years, not anyone. AA is a text, if you want to know what it says, consult the text.
Sorry - but this is the message I received. In my early twenties I spent a year in AA. I have heard this mentioned in meetings numerous times. I have read the blue book. If that’s not the intended message - it’s certainly what gets transmitted. I’d find it extremely difficult to argue otherwise, from my own experiences.
I would not dismiss the people and experiences that contributed to your perception of AA and 12 steps groups in general. I have read quite a bit in your posts I agree with. I also think LFS is on the money here and would defer to his insight if you find yourself in disagreement with what you understand AA culture to be like.
ETA: Or as he said defer to the text itself. There is free online literature if links would help :)
Like I said, I have read it. I am well aware of what it says.
I am also well aware of what gets taught and discussed in AA meetings. Regardless of what the blue book says, unless it’s a blue book study meeting that really dives into the text, many groups take their own interpretation of it and it is only loosely referred to.
This was ten years ago now. Maybe things are different now? I doubt it. Regardless of what the text says, there are millions in the program that believe it is the only way. Where are they getting that from, then?
I am not speaking against AA. Like I said I think it helps people. I am speaking against Victoar’s assertion that entering rehab without good reason causes unnecessary damage to someone, or something.
I spent a year in the program and concluded I was not an alcoholic. My sponsor told me my life was gonna spiral. It didn’t, I thrived. That was my experience, it didn’t harm me in any way and I met a lot of very good people. I would actually go back, if I had a problem, but I don’t. AA helped me realize that.
AA is a great thing but in some places it can be “different” like in South Africa when ******** ********* had to remind the group that appartide was not part of the program…
I’ll be 4 years sober in less than a month. Very likely I would be dead or in jail if I didn’t stop drinking. I drank nearly every day from college until the year I turned 30. Most days it was “only” a 6 pack of craft IPAs. I hate the person I was when I got really drunk, and I’m embarrassed when I remember instances or hear stories from others. Alcohol destroyed my first serious relationship, my education and a lot of friendships.
The first time I got sober was after two DUIs in a 6 month span (apparently the first one didn’t stick). I was near blackout drunk both times and easily could have killed myself or someone else. I stayed sober for about a year, then slowly started moderating with a beer or two socially. Eventually I fell back in the same pattern and ended up blacking out once or twice a month and doing stupid things. Quit for good on September 15, 2016.
Socially, not drinking seemed like a death sentence. In reality, I have better relationships with my family, close friends and partner. I don’t have as many acquaintances to share a beer with, but those were mainly “friendships” of convenience so I didn’t have to drink alone.
Health wise, I lost weight, lowered my BP, got active, quit smoking (and eventually all nicotine), and got somewhat of a handle on my anxiety and depression. Quitting had a substantial impact on my depression. I mainly drank to self medicate my anxiety and insomnia, and to socialize.
I regret plenty of things from my 20s. Quitting drinking before my 30th birthday is not one of them.
Those are good points. I don’t really have an explanation besides saying different fellowships manifest differently. Many of us are very sick people, and that can easily show up in how we talk about the program. But I’m careful not to pathologize those differences as well.
I’ve been to groups that were 100% wrong for me. One was so bad that I told my sponsor at the time how much it sucked. His response was that maybe that group is wrong for me, but it may be the only thing that works for those members. The very things that make that group unacceptable for me might be what that group needs in order to work through the things that come easy to me.
I’m glad you didn’t spiral. I agree that those preaching 100% abstinence for all or any one-size-fits-all solution are wide off the mark. As we say in Al-Anon, take what you like and leave the rest. Thanks for sharing your experience with the program.
