This is standard process for the skeptical mob. They have created tens of thousands of hours of YouTube video based on the most absurd game of telephone ever. Nobody actually quotes the source, they just name it.
This happens with pretty much everything. It’s why providing sources in discussion are so important otherwise the gaslighting grows exponentially.
Effective skepticism is such an easily trainable skill I’m not even sure it fits into conventional ideas of “intelligence” which tends to lean more toward abstract problem solving. To be an effective skeptic you just need a) a passing familiarity with the most common logical fallacies and b) a passing familiarity with the most common statistical manipulations. Those are things that are literally accessible by reading a few Wikipedia articles. Bad skepticism is mostly just lazy skepticism.
a key feature of intelligence is recognizing when you have enough evidence to drop good-faith skepticism.
This.
This is the key rule of skepticism imo. If what you are basing your skepticism on does not outline a direct source, they are not worth listening to. If they paraphrase and do not link to a source document, they are lying. Alex Jones does it 100% of the time with his stories. He takes a headline, spins it however he wants, and NEVER includes a direct source for his claims. Because he cant. Because it will prove he is lying.
I’m stealing this. A+ for eloquence.
I see some attempted beat downs upthread so I’ll give you animals some new meat…
First of all, is it safe to conclude that Covid isn’t going to be eradicated and has in all likelihood entered into endemic stage? How many experts at this point still think that preventative measures will cause covid to disappear to the point where we won’t be dealing with it for years and years to come?
I’m all for being a good citizen and protecting my neighbor, but at what point can young healthy people expect to get on with their lives? At what point does the onus fall on the old, obese, and those with comorbidities to protect themselves?
I think this needs to be asked because a). This is not a virus that impacts everyone equally, and b). It’s pretty clear that vaccinations do not prevent breakthrough cases (even if they lessen the number or severity). So how many unnecessary “boosters” are we going to force healthy people to get?
I know this won’t be well received here, but I think it’s a legitimate question that requires an answer for those who were never at much risk from covid in the first place
The one reason I can come up with for mask and vaccine mandates is to protect workers. There are probably quite a few people at high risk who still need to work and they shouldn’t be subjected to unnecessary risk. But I also think I’d prefer giving those people disability and/or unemployment pay than making everyone else wear masks and be vaccinated in recreational places like restaurants, bars, casinos, sporting events, etc. I’m compassionate and feel for those at high risk or who are scared, but there has to be a better way than to ask the rest of us to continue sacrificing living our full lives
Tell me where I’m wrong
Just what do you think “prevent” means?
Also, vaccines are not available for everyone yet, no matter how much they want them.
That, right there, is really fucking wrong.
Your first obvious error is that you don’t seem to understand the difference between pandemic and endemic. I would like you do your own research and come up with a viable definition of what it means for a virus to enter an endemic stage.
At this point, I really don’t care if unvaxxed people die. What I do care about is the obvious stress being placed on the health care system. I am ambivalent between wanting to save people and wanting to go accelerationist and hope for a collapse leading to a rebuild so that more people are saved in the long run. If we can get to the point where no elective surgeries are being canceled because of COVID concerns, that’s good enough for me. Other people may have high standards, but I don’t think it’s worth it. There’s probably not a way to get there without vaccine mandates of some sort, since not enough people are willingly vaccinated.
I think it means to stop from happening?
I asked a while back about the problems I was having with a Trump loving Neanderthal co-worker who kept asking me wtf do I care if he’s vaccinated if I’m vaxxed and vaccinations weren’t being effective in stopping the spread to others. I had a hard time coming up with a good answer and still am. Hence, why I’m expressing my own impatience with it all
My vocabulary is really being put to the test ITT. Without looking it up, I understand endemic to mean that it’s here to stay. AIDS is an endemic.
This right here is one of the biggest problems imo. You can’t turn people away for being dumb or reckless. But then, hospitals aren’t being filled with healthy young people to my knowledge. So my question(s) stand
So vaccines don’t stop cases from happening, even though they stop a bunch of cases from happening? Yeah, I think you went wrong in there.
But we are getting crushed despite efforts never being stronger. That’s kind of my point. Nothing we do is going to stop it
Would most people here at least agree that probably everyone is going to get some form of covid sooner or later? Almost like the flu? I have several friends who are on their 2nd and 3rd time already. I think getting it is unavoidable at this point unless you’re willing to live your life under quarantine. Am I wrong?
I don’t think they’re stopping a “bunch of cases” from happening. We are currently having one of the biggest surges ever with the most people being vaccinated as ever. No offense, but who’s talking out of both sides of their mouth here? It sounds like it’s you tbh
You’re the one who first said that they lessen the number of cases. And the vaccines have been proven to lessen the number of cases, especially if you’re boosted.
I’m not trying to be argumentative. I understand the need to stop the stress on hospitals and staff. But it’s not the younger healthier population that’s causing that. Let me know if I’m wrong, but it seems to be mostly the out of shape politically conservative stubborn old types that refuse to get vaccinated that are causing such a strain on hospitals.
Young and healthy people are getting hospitalized and dying, just in fewer numbers. Funny how being young and healthy counts as prevention, even if imperfect, but vaccines don’t, because they’re imperfect.
It’s not this simple. It’s weird to still have to talk about this 2 years in. It’s a numbers game. Every small advantage we can get has impacts. Just cause an individual is not a huge risk of going into the hospital, X number of people that they infect may go to the hospital. So get boosted and help the overall numbers…
I’m conceding a point to make a stronger one. It’s not working? And even if it were 100% effective, if you’re vaccinated why should you care if someone else is? That’s the question I’ve been unable to answer for myself when arguing with anti vaxxers
I have to think about whether this is a good point or not. You’d have to show that healthy people tying up ICU beds from covid are a significant problem. I don’t think they are. Also, you’d presumably agree that healthy vaxxed individuals are significantly less likely to take up an ICU bed, right? And what percentage of those still unvaxxed do you think we’ll be able to convince to get vaxxed? These are the people that are the problem. What I’m saying is that we’re in the position we’re in and I don’t see it changing
Because I (or someone I care about) might need to go to the hospital but can’t because all the beds are full. If the unvaxxed were willing to just die quietly in their homes, I might be convinced not to care too much.
