I would add that apparently the robber’s gun was NOT real.
Doesn’t change anything for me, but it is what it is.
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Not sure I agree with this but I’m curious if you think this applies to law enforcement as well as civilian bystanders?
I’m imagining a scenario where a gunman is shot in the chest, the gun flues out of his hands and he falls motionless to the ground. Surely the shooter is not justified in walking up to the motionless body and continuing to pump rounds into his head.
Even if he’s not motionless and is instead writhing in pain, I feel like a cop is likely to be charged with murder if he just executes him at that point. Maybe I watch too much tv.
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This situation isn’t that different than Laquan McDonald, whom the cops were pursuing for brandishing a knife and burglarizing cars. The officer there was convicted of murder.
Cop is a pro doing a job and should be held to a higher standard. So there are definitely cases where I would treat the cop differently from a random.
In the restaurant video I wouldn’t convict the killer, but I might convict a cop on that last shot. Probably not,though, But at least I would think about it.
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I am at a loss for words.
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I didn’t exactly break down the video, but it all happened very fast. Also I don’t remember if the guy was completely motionless at the point of the last shot.
I think if there was more time between the second to last shot and the last shot and it was very clear that they guy wasn’t moving and wasn’t going to try to get up, then I’d convict on that.
There was a short pause between the last two shots during which the shooter picked up the robber‘s gun. The robber already had ~8 bullets in him at that point. If he was even still alive there is no chance he was still a threat.
If you want to give a pass to a civilian that‘s one thing but allowing police to just execute criminals is something else entirely. They should be held to a higher standard.
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Ok, lemme go watch it again. I don’t remember him disarming him and then shooting him.
Edit: OK, saw it again, it looks like the last shot is fired as he is reaching for the dropped gun. I can’t 100% tell if the guy on the floor started to move or whatever. I suppose there is some possibility he could have been wearing a vest. I guess, I’ll switch to probably convict if a cop did something like that to a suspect while on duty.
A lot of it depends on the level of surprise involved and how much time there is to react. In most cop incidents, it’s completely different. The cop is going into a situation where they know something could go down, so it’s a different mindset entirely. It’s next to impossible for a cop shoot to go down exactly like this (except for the scenario of off-duty cop).
Again, you are only drawing if your intent is to murder someone. How bad you murder them is not really at issue.
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Correct, but if you didn’t murder them, you don’t get unlimited attempts over an unlimited period of time. I think we would all agree that if you intended to murder him and failed, you can’t pop down to the hospital the next day and finish the job.
This thing happened so fast I’m definitely giving a civilian the benefit of the doubt. Cop who is on duty, I hold to a much higher standard. If it was even 10s between second to last and last shot, that might be too much in most cases. Off duty copy, who is just eating some dinner and gets surprised. That’s a tougher call for me.
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I would add that apparently the robber’s gun was NOT real.
that’s sad.
Siciliano signs off for the last time 
Don’t disagree with that. I just don’t think the time involved in this case is significant.
The answer to “should person A with gun shoot person B with gun” has to be to reject the premise.
Neither if them should have a gun. That really needs to be the start and end of this discussion.
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I appreciate the sentiment. However, sometimes there is gonna be a trial involving person A and then you kind of have to answer that question.
I haven’t watched the video and absolutely am not going to. But apparently there was a guilty verdict in a somewhat similar sounding case in Oklahoma:
This one is quite different, imo. He shot him in the head, then chased the second perp, then came back to the guy on the floor (presumably doing nothing), went behind the counter, then got a different gun and then unloaded that second gun into the body on the ground. I think it would hard not to convict for that.
In the current case, we’re arguing about a shot that was a few seconds after the rest at most.
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That makes him a bad person
First day of the semester and I’m teaching in the basement of some building across campus from my office. I feel like I’m being punished for something, but I’m not sure what.
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The facts are pretty different. In that case he shot a guy, chased another away, then came back, got another weapon and shot again. That had to take much longer than the ten seconds in the other story that makes it more of a continuous action.