I’m obviously deeply ignorant (no sarcasm) on the issue, but I have heard from Yuv and others that these types of protestors aren’t exactly coming from a place USAians would expect. For example, that the majority of them would call themselves Zionists (Yuv that’s how I remember it, apologies if I’m misremembering)
Forcing Palestinians out of their homes isn’t exactly what they’re protesting. It’s more like they’re protesting that Netanyahu’s administration didn’t use optimal hostage-rescuing strat and kidnap-prevention strat
I’ve been to a few big protests. When they get this size it’s impossible to generalise. There’s literally whole swathes of society there. Will have a full range of opinions.
95% of Israelis would call themselves Zionists, they live in a country that exists because of Zionism. The anti-Zionists in Israel are mostly religious lunatics who are anti-Zionist for weird religious reasons I am not interested in understanding.
It’s a bit like protests against cruelty at the border in America I guess, there are people who genuinely want radical change in border policy, there are also people who want essentially the same thing done, just with less unconcealed brutality. There’s a continuum of people between those two poles. They form a loose coalition against the conservatives, who think it’s good that people are being brutalized.
Pretty much this. Zionism is the belief that the Jewish people should have a country of their own in Eretz Israel. Non Zionists jewish Israelis don’t really exist in any meaningful way. It is also why Israelis view “Anti Zionism” as anti semitic.
The protests aren’t about Gazans or Palestinians. I don’t know what USAians expect though.
I just dropped it at the time, but my point was ideological, about the idea of a historical claim on Eretz Yisrael. Like, I think the whole idea of a “Jewish state” is a very bad one and I categorically reject the idea that the Jewish people have some sort of collective hold on the land of Israel, so I guess in that sense I am an anti-Zionist. This doesn’t necessarily have any bearing on my political positions on the existing state of Israel, though. Like, I also categorically reject the idea that the British Empire ever had any legal right to claim Australia as its territory, but also, this is a country that exists and people live here. It’s necessary to compromise between idealism about the past and the reality of what actually happened. As far as the idea of a “Jewish state” goes, I am against it, but also there are a great many de facto and actual “Muslim states” and even a few “Christian states”, so it would be unreasonable to make too much of a fuss about this.
The thing is, the fact that this country was founded on land stolen by force from the native inhabitants is the standard view here, taught in schools and enshrined in Australian law ever since the Mabo judgement. The sense I get from Israelis is that they don’t just think that Israel is justified by virtue of being a functioning country which ought to be allowed to keep doing its thing despite past mistakes (which is what I think about Australia) but that many or most of them think that the way in which Israel was founded was actually justified. Correct me if I’m wrong here. And it’s opposition to this idea, that Israel is actually a good idea, well-conceived and well-executed, which is considered “anti-Zionism” and by extension anti-Semitism.
Yeah the standard perception is that either Jews are entitled to the land by virtue of historic claim or by virtue of, in lack of better phrasing, the way shit happened. Not as a result of “well it was stolen but now it’s ours” but more of a “there was a conflict between two sides and one won”.
i dont think it’s very accurate historical analysis that Israel and Australia colonization is similar. As much as it’s annoying to some, Israel is a bit more complex than that.
As for anti-zionism, I don’t necessarily agree with your conclusion there if I understood it correctly. Most countries aren’t well conceieved and well executed. I don’t think Israelis expect or care about that perception that much. Especially not those who oppose Netanyahu now.
The psychopath criminal fascist Itamar Ben Gvir, who is the Minister of National Security is turning the Israeli police into his own army.
On Friday the police arrested 3 elderly women from their homes, handcuffed and all, for distributing fliers in a synagogue calling for the releases of the hostages.
It might sound weird but in Israel the hostages became a political issue and calling for their release is considered “leftist”.
Ben Gvir also appointed a new chief of police. Said newly appointed chief was quoted saying “Gay people disgust me. I cant watch two men holding hands on the street”.
This morning this was the front page of Haaretz, a large left-leaning newspaper.
It says “Good Morning [name of new Police Chief]”.
There’s a civil war coming. You’re not necessarily going to like the “good” side here, but they sure are better than the evil one.
Crazy ass Jamee Bond shit in Lebanon just now. Hundreds of Hizbollah radio devices exploded at the same time in multiple locations. Reports of over 500 injured.
Coded messages. Landline phones. Pagers. Following the killing of senior commanders in targeted Israeli air strikes, the Iran-backed Lebanese militant group, Hezbollah, has been using some low-tech strategies to try to evade its foe’s sophisticated surveillance technology, informed sources told Reuters.
This feels like there should come a follow-up attack on the Hezbollah right away. As devastating as this is, and they say some people have even been killed, if they don’t do something else soon this is just a bit more than an elaborate prank.
